What is natural talent?

[matricks]

This is kind of a drum philosophy question i suppose. When it comes to the greats out there, i.e. Vinnie, Dave, Virgil and so on; how much of what they possess is innate natural talent and how much is pure hard work? I am sure it is a combination, whether it be 40/60 or 30/70 or whatnot. Hearing some of these players may leave the rest of us with the feeling of "where does this leave us?". So what is it that separates them from mere mortals, is it innate ability or just dedicated work ethic? When i asked Joel Rosenblatt about this at a clinic he seemed to not want to speak freely due to the fact possibly he didn't want to dishearten youngsters by coming across as saying that "no matter how hard you practice some people just have it and some don't". When i later talked to him he leaned toward the idea that natural talent for most of the "big" players does exist and some people without that talent just can't ever reach that level... dishearting or not that was his belief. I was just wondering what everyone else has experienced and what everyone thinks about this subject. I like to think that hard work can conquer any obstacle but maybe that is just idealistic thinking...

[royerin]

I'm sure Erskoman will have a good answer for us... [img]cool.gif[/img]

[McKenzie]

There is no doubt that everyone has certain abilities or gifts that reside in them more than others, whatever it might be. Music, business, science, sports etc. But as has been said before you have to work hard with discipline to refine those abilities. Michael Jordan said openly that he knew he was blessed with more than normal ability to play basketball but if it was not for his methodical, disciplined, persistent hardwork he would have not reached the level he did.

I have come to terms that yes some do have an edge that others do not but that does not mean that others who maybe do not have that level of natural ability cannot themselves reach a high level if they are committed to the goal. I do believe that Vinnie and Virgil, Dave and others have a high level of natural ability, but they worked their asses off to hone those abilities. Ask guys who knew Virgil and Vinnie when they were young and they knew these guys were going to be good they had that "THING" going at an early age. But we sure cannot take away from them and others that they put in the disciplined hours along with having an extremely confident positive attitude which is so key to make it all work in the end.

Regards Digital

[PocketPlayer]

Sammy Davis Jr

[PencilZ]

The hours they put in are irrelavent unless, the hours are productive practise.

Perhaps thats also a key Ingredient with these natural players. That they have good "practice time skills" and are aware of How to practice, or use their time in the most efficient manner.

It would be nice if Mr erskine had an opinion on this subject. Peter?

[ashio nz]

Cool topic. I agree that SOME natural ability is needed for someone to be able to play/perform, which applies to most if not all artforms.

Raw, natural talent needs to be polished like a diamond so that we make the most of whatever gift has been bestowed upon us. How much an individual commits to in terms of practice and study is dependent on motivation and ENTHUSIASM - this being the most important aspect of developing a craft (IMHO).

The true greats will never stop growing or developing their chosen instrument because the learning process is a lifetime project. (Nobody is everything!) I think also that the 'working smarter' approach to practicing is probably best -
ie, realising that there's no substitute to hard work but, at the same time, remaining open to all muscial ideas and styles & concepts. This expands your mind and therefore your approach to playing.

When you see Virgil, Vinnie, Dennis, etc tearing it up, appreciate and marvel at what they can do but realise that (a) they all started somewhere too and (b) don't be intimidated - be inspired.

[XNavyDrummer]

In addition to what has previously been said, I think the age that you start and the quality of instruction play a major part in the level of skill as an adult. But the primary factor I think may be motivation and carefully planned out hard work!

[Derek DeFields]

I agree with Andy. Your "voice" is unique to you and is certainly a product of your influences and talent. However, I think most of your "ability" comes from hard work. Some guys don't have to put in as much, but that's not the same as them getting to levels (technically at least) that would be "impossible" for you or me.

[brandrum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Digital Man:
But as has been said before you have to work hard with discipline to refine those abilities. Michael Jordan said openly that he knew he was blessed with more than normal ability to play basketball but if it was not for his methodical, disciplined, persistent hardwork he would have not reached the level he did.

I

Regards Digital</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree, but could it just be the fact that he believed that he had natural talent that helped him take it to the next level?

[buga]

I don't think there's such a thing as "natural talent" perse....Talent like all things in life is acquired by working and developing certain skills to master any duty..

U can have all the talent u want(then again who measures talent? yourself? bandmates? teachers?). If you don't work on things to get better then you're just a "wasted" talent....

To me it all boils down on working hard to achieve a goal. Like someone mentioned awhile ago, there's not a better time to be a drummer than RIGHT NOW!. You've got perhaps sum of the best advancements in educational resources-videos-books-the internet(where u can basically download any score from drum corps among other things [img]wink.gif[/img] ). Think about it, back in the 40's-50's there were no music schools or that sort of thing. Drummers learned the hard way, by transcribing and learning the tools of the trade as they say(or whatever)

Still to this day(and probably forever), the best approach is PRACTICING. How did Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson get to that POINT, by shooting 500 free throws and working their asses out to get to that leve! Not much to it other than that(and having a good teacher to guide you through, and well good discipline also helps). Think about it all the drummers we idolize practiced ALOT, Vinnie used to practice 7 hours a day! I heard a story about Weckl locking himself up for 2 years when he heard Cobham and all the fusion guys.....now that's DRIVE and PASSION!

If you have a good practice regimen, there's no doubt in my mind that u can make up more ground than someone who's been playing for 20 years who hasn't developed his "full potential". Look at Thomas Lang and his practice routine, technically speaking the guy doesn't really have much to pull for, he's already at the top of the hill with guys like Virgil, but his still practicing and working on other areas that are far more important than just "drumming"(that could turn into another discussion but HEY!)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 02, 2003 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>